This post isn’t about imposing my beliefs on others or disrespecting those who do not subscribe to certain ideologies. This post is just to explain how perplexed I am at people who don’t believe in God. I get that not everyone is a Christian. There are thousands of different belief systems, religions, and ways for you to say “I’m very spiritual” (which is usually a cop-out answer). I get that. I even get agnostics, who don’t claim to know anything for sure but at least acknowledge that there is a possibility of something(s) greater than ourselves.What I don’t get is people who don’t believe in anything, and think that it’s preposterous and foolhardy to believe in God, god, or gods.
These days, atheism is a growing trend. It’s becoming more and more chic to be godless and to deny any existence of supernatural beings or forces. These elite group of educated philosophers, scientists, humanists, etc. all present arguments from their offices at Oxford/Cambridge/Harvard or wherever that show that a belief in God is like a belief in the Loch Ness Monster, The Easter Bunny, or Bigfoot. People are writing books upon books of this stuff, and people are eating it up. In recent years, the Atheist Bus Campaign in the U.K. has been posting brightly-colored message to bus riders.
I see the point from which their argument stems (that none of this can be proven, that it is all illogical, that we must “look at the facts”). There is no tangible “proof” that God exists. But the crux of their arguments against spirituality is actually more ridiculous than the belief itself. Allow me to explain:
The Atheists’ beliefs (and yes, they also have “beliefs”, just not ones that include a Creator):
Man evolved from a single-celled organism. We have no idea where this organism came from, or why the Big Bang happened, but for sure God didn’t cause the Big Bang, because there is no God. Anyway, back to the organism. We are descendants of a primordial protoplasm that washed up on some beach billions of years ago for whatever reason. We are merely products of time, chance, natural forces and natural selection. Our existence here is arbitrary. We exist on a planet in a solar system inside of a rapidly expanding but meaningless universe. We are purely biological, and different in degree but not in kid from a microbe, virus, or amoeba. Your capacity to love, to think, to reason unlike any other being on earth--this is all explained by science. The fact that no two people on earth have the same fingerprints, the complexity and intricacy of the human cell and the human brain, the millions of species of plants, animals, and fish; the way the world works--all of this happened purely by chance. Darwinian theory has a lot of holes in it--but who cares? It makes more sense than any idea of “God.” Science proves that God doesn’t exist!! You have no soul or spirit; no essence beyond your flesh. When you die, you will cease to exist. You have no purpose. In short, you came from nothing and you are headed nowhere.
This purely nihilistic view is one that I just can’t grasp. People would rather believe all that mumbo jumbo than even acknowledge the possibility that there’s a reason for all this madness. I understand how religion (organized or not) results in the disillusionment of many. I don’t get how you can just renounce beliefs entirely. A belief in a Higher Power is necessary for many reasons, least of all to preserve your own sanity. If this life was all we had, then nothing would matter at all. The other think I can’t abide is the argument that science somehow disproves the existence of God. I vehemently refute that. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive (though this idea is promoted by both theists and atheists alike). Atheists like to point out empirical data and say, “See? Science explains these phenomena. That proves God is fake and the Bible is just a collection of fairy tales.” No, actually it proves nothing. Just because you just showed me one of Newton’s Laws doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist. God is governing the law of inertia. If my argument can’t show atheists that God exists (or is likely to exist), then they definitely can’t prove to me that He doesn’t just by playing the Evolution card. There is no doubt in my mind that God exists. Do I have questions about certain Bible passages? Of course. Is it logical to believe in Immaculate Conception, Satan and hell, Noah’s Ark, or Jonah being eaten by a large fish? No, it’s not, but faith is believing without seeing. But in my relationship with Christ, I’ve seen enough, felt enough and have had enough miracles to know the Truth.
Still in doubt? Watch the series ‘Life’ on the Discovery Channel (ignoring the fact that Oprah’s voice lessens the enjoyment) and then come back and tell me that there is no God. I dare you.
It's certainly true that you don't "get" atheists, along with evolution, cosmology, and many other scientific concepts which you ironically call "mumbo jumbo" while clinging to ancient superstitions.
ReplyDeletePutting words -- stupid words -- in the mouths of those you disagree with is not an attempt to understand, it is an act of intellectual dishonesty and bad faith. Shame on you.
ReplyDeleteGet an actual scientific education. I dare you.
Larry, I agree that I generalized atheists and put words in people's mouths, but there's no need to say that my words are stupid because you disagree. And if you actually did find my post to be stupid, there was certainly a more respectful way of making this known. Some of this is meant to be taken in jest (I put up a picture from google images, for crying out loud). Some of this was trying to be funny. You're taking this a bit too seriously. (And I thought Christians were supposed to be uptight. Sheesh). And as I said to the last commenter, it wasn't my intention to offend anyone. Apparently, I offended you, so I'm sorry about that. But I'm not ashamed of what I wrote. I don't think that people who issue ad hominem attacks in their personal blogs should feel badly about a decision to voice a personal opinion. People make claims arguments against Christianity all the time (some of them baseless); should they be ashamed of this? No.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing: in your comment, you seem to think that my post was a misguided attempt to understand. It wasn't. I was simply voicing my opinion, not trying to understand atheism. I will never understand it--not because I am uneducated, as you suggested, but because I can't (and don't want to) wrap my head around the idea of a universe without greater meaning, that was designed by no one.
I definitely thought I only had one reader (my older brother) to share my musings/rants with, so I wasn't expecting any comments, especially not one so opprobrious. Again, sorry if I upset you or any other readers. Thanks for reading.
One Question:
ReplyDeleteWhere did the gasses responsible for "The Big Bang" come from?
Oh.
Carry on.
Dear Wordsmith, I won't take you to task the way Larry does although it's my opinion he should ALWAYS be listened to as he's surprisingly smart. Sometimes his writing comes across as pretty foul tempered though.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I'm one of those atheists you don't get. Long experience suggests trying to convert someone is incredibly difficult if not downright impossible. After all, conversion is simply changing one's mind and the person has to do that them self.
If you're truly interested in "getting" us, I'd like to recommend two books. The first is titled "godless - How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists" by Dan Barker of the Freedom From Religion Foundation. He spends the first part of his book telling you about his life as a traveling preacher and how he slowly lost his faith and how that effected his life. He then goes on to tell about a number of arguments that he's used in debates with believers and explains why he's right from a believers point of view and this is the incredible part of the book. He still remembers what it's like to be a believer and can explain things in a believer's language. It's really a good book and I recommend it highly.
http://www.amazon.com/Godless-Evangelical-Preacher-Americas-Atheists/dp/1569756775/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288492621&sr=8-1
I'd also like to recommend Carl Sagan's book "The Demon Haunted World - Science as a Candle in the Dark". If you're unfamiliar with Sagan, you're in for a real treat! He used to be one of the most famous scientists in the US. He wrote the movie Contact, starring Jodie Foster. He's done work on some satellites that were sent to Jupiter and the outer solar system. He wrote and starred in the TV series Cosmos.
His book reviews some history and events little known outside of the skeptics community. He explores the ways humans fool themselves. He traces fads and fallacies that have swept the nation. My wife thought it was a difficult read but I found it quite easy. I don't know what you'll think of it. It was this book that finally converted me to atheism. You'll have to get it and read the part about the Dragon in his garage!
http://www.amazon.com/Demon-Haunted-World-Science-Candle-Dark/dp/0345409469/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288492983&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Contact-Carl-Sagan/dp/0671004107/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1288493022&sr=1-1
Ms. Wordsmith, as you probably know, the way science works is it puts forward a hypothesis, something believed to be true, and then tries to find counterexamples, thereby disproving the hypothesis. A hypothesis that exists for a long time without being disproven is then promoted to theory. You've put forward the hypothesis that God exists. It is now your job to search for reasons to think you may be wrong. If you choose to do this, you must speak to the skeptics; not the believers, because the believers ....well, they're believers and will try to defend what they believe. There are many skeptic groups on the internet, I'm sure you'll find a good one. I'd like to suggest you being with the Center for Inquiry and/or the James Randi Educational Foundation.
Best wishes in your journey.
Ummm, Larry was clearly saying you are putting stupid words in atheist's mouths. He said you were intellectually dishonest, not stupid. But, don't worry, I doubt he will lose any sleep over it.
ReplyDeleteWitty, your post is filled with false (and easily falsifiable) statements (you might start with finding our why scientists don't really use the word proof). Your post is an example of bearing false witness. That you say you are just voicing an opinion, without any interest in understanding that of which you have an opinion, says it all.
And yes, when people make baseless claims against Christians or Christianity, they should be ashamed. That is what we would call intellectual honesty.
I watched "Life" on the BBC with David Attenborough's narration. If you somehow got the idea that the series supports the existence of a god, then Oprah Winfrey's narration must be extremely dumbed down. Or you've spectacularly missed the point. Or both.
ReplyDeleteHi Derek, when I recommended "Life" I became more in awe of the world around us, which made me more sure that God exists, and a few people agreed. You're right; the show itself was neutral. I just meant that it made so much sense to me that there is Intelligent Design when I looked at how everything fits together. I definitely believed in God before, but after I watched "Life" that's when I became even more confused about atheists. I have engaged in conversations with unbelievers and they certainly have compelling arguments, but there is something that explains how everything got here, and for me that is God.
ReplyDeleteScott, thank you for keeping it cordial and for the book recommendations. I haven't read the publications that you mentioned, and they sound very interesting. I have read the works of Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins (my beloved grandfather is a proud atheist and lent me some reading material). I do like to hear the other side, even though I can't be convinced.
ReplyDeleteChris, sorry if you got offended. Thank you for the clarification. And I thought that it was evident that I was intentionally taking creative liberties with my "summary" of atheists' beliefs.
ReplyDeleteDear Wordsmith, I'm pleased to see you have had conversation with nonbelievers. All we can do is lay it out there and let others make up their own minds.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I'm sure you've heard this one before, no? If God made the universe, who made God?
Best wishes.
Humans are essentially immaterial spiritual beings encased within a mortal transient shell as punishment for a sin against the creator (original sin). The world is simply a testing ground and upon our death we are then judged and either condemned to eternal suffering in hell or reunited with our creator in Heaven. This creator once became manifest in the form of Jesus, both completely human and completely divine, who was sentence and executed for our sins.
ReplyDeleteIs that the God you believe in? I don't understand how you get all that from a nature documentary.
Evolution through natural selection is so revolutionary because it explains the diversity of life through natural preexisting processes. Natural Selection is the mechanism that drives the process, not a divine intelligence. Most major Christian sects now accept evolution as a scientific fact but they believe evolution is driven by God. So effectively what they are forced to believe in is 1)the sheer mind boggling vastness of the universe was created solely for a punishment of human beings and 2)there was a period of millions of years of animal life before the emergence of man through evolution. I can't understand how that view can be considered reasonable.
Of course, you can deny the scientific evidence but you need to do so on the grounds of science, not philosophy or faith.
Gavin,
ReplyDeleteIf "Original Sin" was concocted after we became immaterial spiritual beings encased in a mortal transient shell, as you put it, why were we placed here to begin with? You see, we can't be punished for something that occurred after our alleged punishment had already begun...
In Christianity original sin is a flaw within humans which can only be conquered through the grace of God and individual moral struggle. It occurred before humans were banished to earth. But time was created at the moment of the big bang. Before and After has no meaning outside the material universe.
ReplyDeleteOriginal Sin is why we cannot 'do the right thing' and instead submit to sinful nature. This is covers everything from greed to murder.
That is my understanding anyway. But I am not a Christian.
Dear Wordsmith, there is a video at this link you should watch.
ReplyDeleteBest wishes.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/11/you_should_be_watching_this_ri.php
Hi, Scott. Thanks for the video! I hadn't heard of PZ Myers before. I appreciate our exchanges. To respond to the question you posed earlier (which is a good one, I might add), I concede that I have no response. I don't know who made God. I have been taught that no one made Him; that he always was, and always will be. I believe this. But can you answer this: How did the Big Bang happen? We still do not know anything about the initial condition. What set everything in motion? I won't believe that it just "happened." This cosmological model certainly does an effective job at explaining our observations, but we can both admit that it neither disproves nor proves God's existence.
ReplyDeleteHey, are you familiar with Pascal's Wager? It wouldn't hurt if you joined my team, you know... :)
Dear Wordsmith, along with you, I cannot explain how the Big Bang happened. The implication is that is must have had a supernatural origin but this is not true. As an analogy, there was a time when people couldn't explain lightning, or tides, or earthquakes. One could assume because I couldn't explain them, they must be of a supernatural origin, created by the Gods. Of course, now, we know each of them has a natural explanation and the Big Bang may have a natural (yet unknown) explanation. In fact, even if we NEVER figure it out, it could still be a natural phenomenon. I've heard it argued (it seems a poor argument to me though) that statistically, there must be something rather than nothing because there is only one way for there to be nothing but many ways for there to be something. So maybe, the universe, in some sense, HAD to come into existence. Interesting though.
ReplyDeletePascal's Wager - that's a good one. I thought Richard Dawkins had a good response to it when posed to him at a lecture by a Liberty "University" student. You can find it on YouTube. Anyway, he explained that the Christian student was in as much danger as the atheist. The Christian version of heaven is based on the idea that Christianity is right and all other religions, including we atheists, are wrong. But, the Muslims think the Christians will go to hell (along with we atheists) for being infidels and only true Muslims will see heaven. For you, the Muslim should consider Christianity in case they're wrong about their Muslim faith but the Muslims think you should consider the Muslim faith in case you're wrong.
What to do? Edward Current (a satirist) has a fine response here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqJpZOljjG8
Best wishes.
P.S. if you want to e-mail me directly, ROT 13 this: fpbgg_znatr ng lnubb.pbz